New Building Task Force

Sites Investigated Earlier by the New Building Task Force

Index of Sites Investigated
British Properties, Future Neighbourhoods Area, “Upper Lands”, West Van

British Properties is the owner of 1600 acres of land slated for future development in the lower part of the “Upper Lands” area described in the West Vancouver Official Community Plan (OCP). The first image below is a map from the Upper Lands section of the OCP, and shows these 1600 acres as Future Neighbourhoods.

British Properties is now actively developing this vast tract of land, beginning with the easternmost portion of the property, a 210-acre portion known as the Rodgers Creek Area. (See the second image below.) The West Van Council has given British Properties the OCP amendment and zoning bylaws it needs to commence development of the Rodgers Creek area, and we understand construction has started for the actual development of this first phase.

Drawing of Future Neighbourhoods section of Upper Lands

Because these holdings are the only significant land available for development in West Vancouver, and are so huge in scope, we believe it worthwhile to investigate the possibility of finding a parcel that might be suitable for us as these holdings get developed. We are concerned, of course, that any of the properties that could become available this way might, like our current property, lack visibility and be unlikely ever to be served by public transportation.

But there could be possibilities. For example, at some point the plans for this land call for “Cypress Village” to be created, consisting of a commercial shopping centre (probably comparable to Caulfeild Shopping Centre) as well as a clustering of fairly dense multifamily housing. Perhaps a site suitable for a church could be found adjacent to or near Cypress Village, giving it sufficient visibility and allowing it to be served by the buses that will likely serve Cypress Village.

Satellite photo of Rodgers Creek area

To investigate these possibilities, the Alternate Site Investigation Team contacted the President of British Properties in the summer of 2007 to let him know of our potential interest. The President was open to the idea of trying to help us find a suitable site in these newly developing BP areas.

NBTF has continued to monitor the progress of BP’s development of the Upper Lands and to stay in touch with the BP President. One main potential obstacle to our finding a suitable parcel in this manner when we need it is that the Rodgers Creek Area may be the only area opened up any time soon. The Rodgers Creek Area probably has less likelihood of containing a visible site on a potential transit route than would the Cypress Village area, and Cypress Village may not get to be developed soon enough for us.  Back to Top

Adjacent to Mulgrave School, West Van

The Mulgrave School is a private, co-educational school in West Vancouver, serving grades K – 12, located just above the Cypress Bowl Road exit from Highway 1. In 2007 NBTF became aware of three contiguous single-family vacant lots conceivably for sale immediately adjacent to the southern boundary of the Mulgrave School, and very close to its large parking lot. (See next image below)

In early 2008 we also became aware that Mulgrave was keenly interested in establishing an early learning centre to serve pre-school ages, and in having a daycare centre close to its campus, particularly to be able to offer day care for the children of its faculty.

Satellite photo of Mulgrave School and adjacent lots

NBTF conceived of the idea that Mulgrave might be willing to venture with NBTF in the following way:

In short, there seemed definite “synergies” to sharing the facilities, particularly since Mulgrave’s most intensive use was during the daytime Monday through Friday, while NSUC was busiest on Sundays and evenings.

NBTF approached the Headmaster of Mulgrave, who was very receptive to the idea. One of the NBTF architects prepared a preliminary sketch as an illustration of the kind of joint facilities that might be possible.

The Mulgrave Board considered the idea in depth at a weekend board retreat devoted to long range strategic planning for the school’s future. The result of that consideration, however, was that the Mulgrave Board decided not to continue to pursue the idea. The Board came to this conclusion because they decided, as a matter of policy, that Mulgrave should always own the necessary facilities to support its educational programs. Thus they would not want to structure a deal where they would only lease those facilities from a third party, as would be true under the potential venture with NSUC.  Back to Top

Existing Church Properties

As noted below, the New Building Task Force has investigated buying existing church properties in several ways. Our interest is in finding an existing property that could accommodate a congregation moderately larger than our current congregation, with adequate parking. To date no suitable properties have been found, although we continue to monitor the market.

Anglican Church of Canada
We called and spoke to senior officials of the Diocese of New Westminster, under whose jurisdiction the Anglican churches on the North Shore fall. (There are nine Anglican churches on the North Shore.) These officials were friendly and helpful, but stated that no existing Anglican churches on the North Shore were available for sale, nor slated to be for sale in the near future (including St. Stephen’s – see below).

These officials pointed out, however, that the Diocese is in the midst of undergoing a Ministry Assessment Process (“MAP”), which is an extensive and long range process to evaluate various parishes within the Diocese, and can lead to the merger, amalgamation, partnering or even closure of individual parishes. One possible result of the process may be that one or more of the Diocese’s North Shore church facilities could be declared surplus, and become available for sale.

The officials also pointed out that the MAP is a “grass roots” process involving a great many people, and takes several years to complete. As of early 2008 the process was still at an early stage, and these officials did not think it likely that any definitive results would be known until at least late 2009 or 2010.

St. Stephen’s Anglican Church, 885 22nd, West Vancouver
In addition to speaking to senior officials of the Anglican Diocese, we talked to an elder of St. Stephen’s Church pursuant to an introduction by an NSUC member and a possible rumor that the church might be for sale. The elder confirmed the same information as we received from Diocese officials – that the church was not for sale, but that it was undergoing a Ministry Assessment Process review to evaluate it and determine long range strategy.

United Church of Canada
We called and spoke to the Chair of the Vancouver-Burrard Presbytery for the United Church of Canada. All United Churches on the North Shore fall under the jurisdiction of this Presbytery. Although very friendly and helpful, this official said no existing United Churches on the North Shore were available for sale, nor slated to be for sale in the near future.

Catholic Church
We called and spoke to the official at the Catholic Archdiocese of Vancouver who deals with property transactions for the Archdiocese. This official said they have no properties for sale, and would not be likely to have any because, as a matter of policy the church “doesn’t sell any property.” Moreover, he said they are a “growing group” and unlikely to have any surplus property in any event.

North Shore Alliance Church, 23rd & St. Georges, North Vancouver
This is a large property one block east of Lonsdale, with extensive parking on site. Following up repeated comments from members of our congregation who had heard “rumours” that this church property might be for sale, NBTF called the Head Pastor of the church in November 2008, who stated that the property is definitely not for sale, nor is there any plan to sell it.

New Life Christian Centre, 2800 Mtn. Hwy, North Vancouver
The site of this church is approximately one acre and is located directly across Mountain Highway from Lynn Valley Centre mall. The church has an excellent location for access to transit and to community and commercial facilities, although the one acre size might well have been to small for our needs. A call to the Minister of the church confirmed, however, that the church is not for sale, nor is there any plan to sell it.

Other Churches
To inventory existing churches, members of the NBTF drove by many of the existing churches on the North Shore to assess whether they might be suitable for us should they ever become available. The impression in many cases was that either the church property was much too small for us or the location not suitable.  Back to Top

Potential Partnership With Waldorf School

In late 2007 we were contacted by the Chair of the Waldorf School (WS) new building committee, who indicated interest in possibly joining forces to look for a new property together. He said the WS was in the process of selling its existing elementary school property in Lynn Valley, North Vancouver, subject to rezoning, with the plan to use the proceeds to buy a new site and build a larger school. The new school would house both the elementary and the high school programs offered by WS.

During this initial conversation, potential “synergies” from joining forces were discussed. For example, we might expect considerable savings in capital costs to both WS and NSUC if we could share the sanctuary and some of the classrooms -- NSUC could use classrooms for Sunday school that Waldorf used the rest of the week; Waldorf could use our sanctuary space during the week for its school auditorium and performance space for school productions. Similarly, we could share the parking lot, since WS would use it almost exclusively during the day Monday through Friday, whereas NSUC’s use would be primarily in the evenings and on the weekends when school was not in session.

A series of meetings promptly followed between representatives of WS and NSUC, including meetings between a special Waldorf subcommittee of the NBTF and the WS new building committee. We discussed potential issues that would be faced in the event NSUC and WS decided to find and develop a site jointly. NSUC also furnished WS with a memo detailing some of our expected space and usage requirements.

Some of the key issues explored, and facts discovered, were:

From these meetings eventually emerged an awareness that many of the synergies hoped for from joining forces would not be a likely result. We were informed, for example, the WS teachers would not be willing to let their classrooms be used by NSUC for Sunday school, so NSUC would have to build its own classrooms. Likewise, WS felt that a space NSUC would need and want for its sanctuary, and the amount of time NSUC would want to be able to use it, would not be compatible with what WS would need and want for its performance space. WS would have to build and exclusively use its own auditorium/theatre.

In the end it was realized by both NSUC and Waldorf that the perceived synergies from developing and sharing a new site and building no longer were likely, and both parties agreed not to spend any more time pursuing the potential partnership.  Back to Top